1996 Draft in Review

[Brophdog88]

1996 Draft in Review

The 1996 draft looked to be the best draft class at that point. It looked deep with Centers and Power Forwards, with elite talent, and young players who looked to begin the new era. You had Kobe and Iverson, arguably both valuable enough to go number 1, Ray Allen, probably the smoothest shooter in the class, Jermaine O’Neal, the raw young prospect. There were a lot of boom or bust picks in this draft, many of whom busted. If you wanted a defense+rebounding post, this was your draft, but none of the post players really turned into scorers. The biggest deal is that many of these players may not be done developing, as it was an underclassmen dominated draft. The Heat GM assumed probably one of the tougher decisions as to who to take first overall, and ended up picking correctly, or so it would appear at this stage. Kobe is still only 20, and while he hasn’t shown the killer instinct that at this point, he is still developing, the Heat’s goal this offseason has to be to keep Kobe around. No grades this year, I think the reranking takes care of that.

1.Miami Heat -

Kobe Bryant SG 6'6'' 192 17 B- B- C+ B- C A
Kobe Bryant SG 20 6'6'' 192 B A- B A- C+ B

Currently Averaging: 19.6 Points 6.7 rebounds 4.4 assists 1.3 steals as the starting SG for the Miami Heat.

Kobe’s ratings look sexy, but at only 20, he hasn’t developed the fire to take over games. Although athletically superior to many foes, he is putting up only above average numbers. His team has been gutted, so you would think he will pick up his scoring, but really, he hasn’t even hit his peak. Kobe is still the best player to come from this class, although he, Iverson, and Allen are fighting for the spot, Kobe’s turnovers, or lack thereof (1.3) are enough to beat out Iverson’s steals. Has he hit his Peak? I doubt it highly, I still see him developing that inside game, and taking over for MJ as the elite SG (Preira is a PG/SG/SF/PF/C, not just a wing) Its closer than you may think, but Kobe still takes the number one spot.


2. Milwaukee Bucks -

Allen Iverson PG 6'0'' 165 21 B- B B- B- C- A
Allen Iverson PG 24 6'0'' 175 C+ A- A- A C B

Currently Averaging: 14.9 points 5.6 rebounds 9.1 assists 2.6 steals but 3 turnovers as the starting PG for the Milwaukee Bucks

Iverson isn’t that much of a scorer, but he is an elite defender at the PG position. 2.6 steals per game puts him second in the league. As an SG, he would not be a good pick, but Milwaukee has him rightly pegged as a PG, and he is putting up solid numbers. Take away his Steals though, and you have a mediocre PG, so suddenly he doesn’t look so good. His turnovers are a big problem, if he can get those down, and his scoring a little he can challenge Kobe, but not now.

3. Cleveland Cavaliers -

Marcus Camby PF 6'11'' 220 22 B- C C- B+ C+ A
Marcus Camby PF 25 6'11'' 220 B- C C- A- B- A

Currently Averaging: 4.6 points 4.7 rebounds in 18.1 minutes off the bench for the Cleveland Cavaliers

Bust, plain and simple. Some people believed that Cleveland was reaching by taking Camby at three, and it would appear that they are correct. The real issue though is who else should they have taken. Jermaine O’Neal would have been a better pick, but really he didn’t break out til this year, and even then, he isn’t scoring much, The Cavaliers already had Nick Anderson and Kenny Anderson, so really, PG and SG weren’t much of a need, however, Ray Allen probably should have been the pick in hindsight, but Hindsight is 20/20, and had Camby blown up and Ray stayed as a pure shooter, this really wouldn’t have been a criticism of Cleveland. Yes, Jermaine should have been the pick, or Ray Allen, but Camby isn’t terrible, you just could have gotten a similar player 7 or 8 picks later… (Camby was just traded to Dallas for Glen Rice, not bad for Dallas, cause maybe Camby has something left in his tank, although I see Camby getting overpaid this offseason and possibly leaving if he goes FA.)

4. Minnesota Timberwolves -

Jermaine O'Neal PF 6'11'' 225 17 C+ C- D+ C+ B- A
Jermaine O'Neal PF 20 6'11'' 225 B C- C A- A- B

Currently Averaging: 10.1 points 11.5 rebounds 2.5 assists 2 blocks as the starting PF for the Philidelphia 76ers

RAW. That was the report on Jermaine O’Neal when he first entered the league, and really, it still applies. He is athletically gifted, and comes up big on Defense for the 76ers, but Offensively he ist still figuring things out. Definitely a fine pick by the Timberwolves, as JO is one of the top 4 players…even though he too was hammered for reaching, but it turned out okay, as he was able to ship him off to Philly for David Robinson who helped Minny to a title. Jermaine still needs to figure out his scoring, but his blocks are solid, and his rebounds are very good a solid pick amongst a class of Posts that has struggled.

5. Milwaukee Bucks -

Ray Allen SG 6'5'' 205 20 C+ A- C C C A
Ray Allen SG 23 6'5'' 205 B- A C B+ C B

Currently averaging: 15.9 points 5.3 rebounds 2.0 assists 2.3 steals as the starting SG for the Milwaukee Bucks

Allen came out as a scorer, with one of the smoothest shots in UOSLR. Suddenly though he has developed a serviceable defense. He may not kill you with quicks, but if you leave him open, uh-oh. I have to say that Allen is one of my favorite players out of this draft, and with a little work on his strength/inside scoring, he will become a monster….heck, he very well could be one right now, but the Bucks are loaded with scoring options, so he doesn’t need to score much. Allen is probably going to be Allan Houston only with better defense and a weaker inside game, which is nothing to scoff at considering Allan Houston is currently averaging 31 points per game. If Allen can score even 25 it’s a great draft pick, but even now it’s a really good one.

6. Seattle Supersonics -

Steve Nash PG 6'3'' 195 22 C B+ B+ C C- A
Steve Nash PG 25 6'3'' 195 C A+ A+ C C- C

Currently Averaging: 20.2 points 9.5 assists 3.4 rebounds 1.5 steals as the starting PG for the Seattle Supersonics

Flashy is the word that describes Steve Nash best. He’ll get looks and oooh’s and aww’s just because of his playmaking skills….enough of them to make people overlook his atrocious defense. He has a great shot, and makes plays all over the court, but when it comes to the other end of the court, other players return the favor. He is one of the best offensive point guards in the game…but his defense keeps him from being elite.

7. Seattle Supersonics -

Peja Stojakovic SF 6'9'' 230 19 C A- C- C+ C A
Peja Stojakovic SF 22 6'9'' 230 C+ A- C B- C B

Currently averaging: 5.6 points 2.6 rebounds 1 assist in 12.3 minutes off the bench for the Seattle Supersonics

Peja is a bust. He probably should have stayed out of the draft a bit longer to polish his game a bit more, but being stuck in the logjam that is the Supersonics SF position can’t be helping. Maybe if he was moved he might become a solid starter, but I don’t know. This is assuredly not what the Supersonics were expecting when they drafted him. Considering the Supersonics team, a post such as Ben Wallace would have been a better pick, because they need Defense and rebounding, not scoring.

8. Cleveland Cavaliers -

Ben Wallace PF 6'9'' 240 21 C F C- B+ B A
Ben Wallace PF 24 6'9'' 240 C+ F C- A B+ C

Currently averaging: 2.7 points 3.7 rebounds .8 blocks in 12.1 minutes off the bench for the Cleveland Cavaliers

Ben is an elite Defensive Center, and would be a perfect player for a team who didn’t have such an abundance of PF/C’s Ben has developed as expected, as a black hole on offense, but elite on Defense. Maybe he can still gain a little offensively, but my feeling is that he is done offensively, and defensively he may still have a little room to grow. However, if he doesn’t resign, I could see him getting overpaid this offseason, so it will be tough for Cleveland to hold onto him.

9. Minnesota Timberwolves -

Erick Dampier C 6'11'' 265 21 C+ D D+ B+ C+ A
Erick Dampier C 24 6'11'' 265 C+ D D A B- C

Currently Averaging: 7.5 points 9.4 rebounds 1.4 assists 1.4 blocks 2.1 turnovers in 29.8 minutes as a fill-in starter for the Minnesota Timberwolves

Solid player, but he really hasn’t developed that much. He isn’t a bad rebounder despite his rating, but he does turn the ball over and defensively he doesn’t get many blocks. Is he a bad pick at 9? Not really, but he really doesn’t offer what you would want out of a 9th pick, as he is best served off the bench, not starting.

10. Washington Bullets -

Kerry Kittles SG 6'5'' 179 22 C+ B- C B C- A
Kerry Kittles SG 25 6'5'' 187 C+ B+ C B+ C- B

Currently averaging: 5.3 points 3 rebounds 1.1 assists in 21.1 minutes off the bench for the Denver Nuggets

Kittles has grown into a good player off the bench, but really, he is kinda trapped as a role player for most teams. He could start for some teams, but really, he doesn’t offer anything special that would make you want to start him. There are better defenders, better shooters, better handlers better basically everything. He is the replaceable player, making his value go down.

11. Portland Trailblazers -

Lorenzen Wright PF 6'11'' 225 20 B- D+ C C+ B A
Lorenzen Wright PF 23 6'11'' 229 C+ C- C B+ A- C

Currently averaging: 7.9 points 10.2 rebounds 1.2 blocks as a fill in starter for the Charlotte Hornets

Not bad really. He is a very good player off the bench, and as a fill in starter as he is being asked to do in Charlotte right now. He may be a bit light for a PF, but he provides solid defense and good rebounding, similar to players selected ahead of him. Portland selected well here, and as I recall used Lorenzen and Theo to get Alonzo (along with other things). Lorenzen surprised me, because in a draft full of underachievers, he has been solid. Will he get overpaid this offseason? Maybe, but if he chooses to resign to a reasonable contract, I see no reason to let him walk if I’m Charlotte.

12. Utah Jazz -

Samaki Walker PF 6'9'' 240 20 B- D+ C- C+ B- A
Samaki Walker PF 23 6'9'' 248 B- C- D+ B- B- C

Currently Averaging: Nothing, currently riding the Pine for the Phoenix Suns

Ouch, 4 years in he's riding the pine after having been traded multiple times, not exactly a stellar pick. He has been traded about 25 times or so, always with the hope for the team acquiring him that he had something in the tank. Turns out he has nothing in the tank, and he doesn’t do anything above average, which makes him terrible. If he had decent Defense or Rebounding, maybe he can be a utility player, but he developed absolutely nothing, making him a terrible pick, andpart of the reason the Jazz are in such bad shape.

13. Chicago Bulls -

Derek Fisher PG 6'1'' 200 21 C B C+ B+ D+ A
Derek Fisher SG 24 6'1'' 200 C A- C B C- C

Currently Averaging: 10.5 points 3.3 rebounds 2.7 assists and 1 steal as the starting SG for the Atlanta Hawks

Derek Fisher was drafted as a PG, and as a PG, he has been a bust. As a SG, he is okay, but undersized, and really not enough of a scorer or defender to play much. He is a definite Role Player, best served with about 15 minutes per game at most. He does offer a decent outside shot, but his inside is poor, his handling is low for a player who is so short playing SG, and as a PG he is useless. Kinda pitiful really that he is a starter, but inreality he is the perfect starter for a tanking team, and I bet that he gets signed away from ATL this offseason to someone who can use him ff the bench, but it sure as heck won’t be me.There were better players taken below Fish, making him a poor pick. However, he did serve some good years in there, and even is the player that has scored the most points in a game out of this first round. I have a feeling though that with Ray Allen and Kobe, that won’t last too much longer.

14. Chicago Bulls -
Adrian Griffin SF 6'6'' 217 21 C+ C C A- C+ B
Adrian Griffin SF 24 6'6'' 225 B C C A- C+ B

15. Portland Trailblazers -
John Wallace SF 6'8'' 225 22 B+ C C C+ C+ B
John Wallace SF 25 6'8'' 225 B+ C C- B C+ C

16. Seattle Supersonics -
Malik Rose PF 6'7'' 250 22 B C- D+ C B B
Malik Rose PF 25 6'7'' 250 B C- D C A- C

17. Phoenix Suns -
Darvin Ham SF 6'7'' 220 22 B C- D+ B C B
Darvin Ham SF 25 6'7'' 220 B C D+ B C B

18. New Jersey Nets -
Moochie Norris PG 6'1'' 175 22 C+ C+ B B D+ B
Moochie Norris PG 25 6'1'' 181 C C+ B+ B+ C- C

19. Minnesota Timberwolves -
Ronnie Fields SG 6'3'' 198 19 C+ C+ C+ C+ C B
Ronnie Fields SF 22 6'4'' 205 C+ A- C+ A- C C

20. Indiana Pacers -
Jerome Williams PF 6'9'' 206 23 C+ C C- B- B+ B
Jerome Williams PF 26 6'9'' 214 C+ C D+ B- B C

21. Milwaukee Bucks -
Othella Harrington PF 6'9'' 235 22 B- C D C+ C+ B
Othella Harrington C 25 6'9'' 235 C+ C D+ B B B

22. Indiana Pacers -
Randy Livingston PG 6'4'' 209 21 B- C B- C+ C- B
Randy Livingston PG 24 6'4'' 209 B- C B- B- C C

23. Sacramento Kings -
Roy Rogers PF 6'10'' 235 22 C D+ D B+ C+ C
Roy Rogers PF 6'10'' 235 25 C D+ D B- C B Hawks

24. Milwaukee Bucks -
Doron Sheffer PG 6'5'' 197 21 C B- C+ B- C B
Gone from the league

25. Detroit Pistons -
Jamie Feick PF 6'9'' 255 22 C+ C- D+ C+ B+ B
Jamie Feick PF 25 6'9'' 255 C+ C D B- B+ D

26. Denver Nuggets -
Drew Barry SG 6'5'' 191 23 C B B C C- B
Drew Barry SG 26 6'5'' 195 C- B+ B- C D+ C

27. Toronto Raptors -
Tony Delk SG 6'2'' 193 22 C B C B C B
Tony Delk SG 25 6'2'' 201 C B C B+ C C

28. Minnesota Timberwolves -
Justice Sueing SF 6'8'' 195 21 B+ C+ C- C+ C C
Justice Sueing SF 24 6'8'' 197 B+ C+ D+ C+ C C

29. Atlanta Hawks -
Priest Lauderdale C 7'4'' 343 22 B- D D- C A- C
Priest Lauderdale PF 25 7'4'' 347 B- D D- C A- C

Most points scored in a game by a 1996 first round draft pick: 43 points by Derek Fisher

Most Rebounds in a game by a 1996 first round draft pick: 22 by Erick Dampier, Lorenzen Wright, Priest Lauderdale

Most assists in a game by a 1996 first round draft pick: 21 by Steve Nash

Most Steals in a game by a 1996 first round draft pick: 7 by Allen Iverson, Steve Nash

Most Blocks in a game by a 1996 first round draft pick: 8 by Justice Sueing

1. Kobe Bryant SG 20 6'6'' 192 B A- B A- C+ (1)
2. Ray Allen SG 23 6'5'' 205 B- A C B+ C (5)
3. Allen Iverson PG 24 6'0'' 175 C+ A- A- A C (2)
4. Jermaine O'Neal PF 20 6'11'' 225 B C- C A- A- (4)
5. Steve Nash PG 25 6'3'' 195 C A+ A+ C C- (6)
6. Ben Wallace PF 24 6'9'' 240 C+ F C- A B+ (8)
7. Lorenzen Wright PF 23 6'11'' 229 C+ C- C B+ A- (11)
8. Ronnie Fields SF 22 6'4'' 205 C+ A- C+ A- C (19)
9. Erick Dampier C 24 6'11'' 265 C+ D D A B- (9)
10. Marcus Camby PF 25 6'11'' 220 B- C C- A- B- (3)
11. Kerry Kittles SG 25 6'5'' 187 C+ B+ C B+ C- (10)
12. Adrian Griffin SF 24 6'6'' 225 B C C A- C+ (14)
13. Derek Fisher SG 24 6'1'' 200 C A- C B C- (13)
14. John Wallace SF 25 6'8'' 225 B+ C C- B C+ (15)
15. Peja Stojakovic SF 22 6'9'' 230 C+ A- C B- C B (7)
16. Priest Lauderdale PF 25 7'4'' 347 B- D D- C A- (29)
17. Malik Rose PF 25 6'7'' 250 B C- D C A- (16)
18. Moochie Norris PG 25 6'1'' 181 C C+ B+ B+ C- (18)
19. Othella Harrington C 25 6'9'' 235 C+ C D+ B B (21)
20. Justice Sueing SF 24 6'8'' 197 B+ C+ D+ C+ C (28)
21. Jamie Feick PF 25 6'9'' 255 C+ C D B- B+ (25)
22. Jerome Williams PF 26 6'9'' 214 C+ C D+ B- B (20)
23. Darvin Ham SF 25 6'7'' 220 B C D+ B C (17)
24. Randy Livingston PG 24 6'4'' 209 B- C B- B- C (22)
25. Tony Delk SG 25 6'2'' 201 C B C B+ C (27)
26. Samaki Walker PF 23 6'9'' 248 B- C- D+ B- B- (12)
27. Drew Barry SG 26 6'5'' 195 C- B+ B- C D+ (26)
28. Roy Rogers PF 6'10'' 235 25 C D+ D B- C (23)
29. Doron Sheffer PG 6'5'' 197 21 C B- C+ B- C (original ratings, he’s gone) (24)

Best Pick:Ray Allen at 5-Milwaukee avoided going post, in a post strong draft, even though it had just picked Allen Iverson who could play PG/SG potentially, and ended up taking the 2nd best player at 5, to pair with Iverson, the third best player, although those two are interchangeable really.
Biggest Steal:Priest Lauderdale. He may not look good, but his size is helping him to 13.5 points and 7.6 rebounds in 20+ mpg.
Worst Pick:Marcus Camby at 3. Looking at the rest of the players taken, Ray Allen should have been the pick, even though he had Nick Anderson already, Anderson could have played SF, and Allen SG, or he could have taken Jermaine, because Camby turned out to be the 10th best player, and was taken at third overall.
Biggest Bust: Samaki Walker He offers nothing, and did not develop, which is not what one wants out of a lotto pick. Taken at twelve, I slot him at 26th best, no exactly a good pick.

[Kruwaukee]

Take away AI's steals and he is just an average PG? For real? The guy has 9 career triple doubles and 81 double doubles. Thats with coming off the bench for the first 2 seasons of his career. Also Jason Kidd gets more TOPG than AI does that make him an average PG?

Ray Allen has gone up steadily in every TC and he is better than Kobe. I've maintained that since his rookie year. He's simmed so much better than he has. Also Allen averaged 25ppg in preseason but he's been a non option this season and he is still putting up 17ppg.

1. Allen
2. AI
3. Kobe

[House]

I picked the biggest steal. I had that going for me at least. ;D

[Brophdog88]

Sept 11, 2009 1:06:07 GMT -5 Kruwaukee said:

Take away AI's steals and he is just an average PG? For real? The guy has 9 career triple doubles and 81 double doubles. Thats with coming off the bench for the first 2 seasons of his career. Also Jason Kidd gets more TOPG than AI does that make him an average PG?

Ray Allen has gone up steadily in every TC and he is better than Kobe. I've maintained that since his rookie year. He's simmed so much better than he has. Also Allen averaged 25ppg in preseason but he's been a non option this season and he is still putting up 17ppg.

1. Allen
2. AI
3. Kobe

lol, AI over Kobe... fyi of the top ten players in assists, Iverson ranks 9th in assist to turnover ratio, which is funny because he ranks 9th in assists as well, but 3rd in turnovers, without Iverson's steals, his stats look like this, 15.5 points 9.1 assists 5.5 rebounds 3.0 turnovers, Kenny Anderson for Cleveland averages 14.7 points 5.6 rebounds 9.6 assists 2 turnovers for Cleveland, he just doesn't have the steals Iverson has. Kidd gets 2 more assists per game than Iverson, and only .3 more to's. Iverson doesn't really score all that much, Kobe is a better scorer, and on the case of Ray Allen, Kobe is a better rebounder, quicker, more assists. Ray may be a better player, but he hasn't shown it stats wise. Kobe puts up better numbers than Ray except for Rays steals, missed that first go around. Geese at you complaining that I ranked your draft picks 2, 3 instead of 1-2, but really, I haven't seen anything yet to put Ray behind Kobe...(by the way, Nick Van Exel put up 30 ppg in preseason....) Iverson is probably around the eight best point guard in the league, so without his steals....where does that put him? average.


PG's who I rank above Iverson (with his steals at average). in no particular order

Cassell, Nash, Billups, (This year I really can't count Preira, since he's played mostly away from PG, but he really is a PG to the Bulls) Stoudamire, Anderson, Kidd, Danilovic, Terrell Brandon, Nick Van Exel, (lots of scoring near on assists less turnovers), Payton, thats 11th right there...12th with Preira, (wtf happened to Penny Hardaway this year...eww.....) Brent Barry could be considered a point but he is playing at SG, even though his D is lower there. Anyway though, just on standard, Iverson ranks 11th or twelvth if you count players at standard position, dependent on your opinion of Preira without his steals, aka, mediocre. There are some point guards who really don't count, since they aren't actually Point Guards, (Steve Smith anybody?). Also, I edited the part about Kobe...I did this over the course of a few days, sit down and knock some out, and I hadn't gotten to Allen when I wrote Kobe, nor had I finished Kobe's analysis. Yes Allen is close to Kobe, Iverson to me not so much, but you still got two of the top three. One more thing....you say Iverson played two seasons off the bench to get his 81 double doubles in 319 games? cause it sure looks like he started from first year...with 35.9 mpg rookie year, and 39 every year since. hrmm....Hell Chauncey Billups on my own team will make 81 double doubles by the end of the season most likely, in only 236 games he sits at 77, with three triple doubles

[Tigertecz]

Firstly, great article, as always Brophdog.

Secondly, what a great draft. It may have been expected to be the wonder draft, but damn look at that list of players. The improvement ratings-wise that some of these players have already had is remarkable, especially those first 5.

1. Kobe Bryant SG 20 6'6'' 192 B A- B A- C+ (1)
2. Ray Allen SG 23 6'5'' 205 B- A C B+ C (5)
3. Allen Iverson PG 24 6'0'' 175 C+ A- A- A C (2)
4. Jermaine O'Neal PF 20 6'11'' 225 B C- C A- A- (4)
5. Steve Nash PG 25 6'3'' 195 C A+ A+ C C- (6)

^^ wow ^^

I think I'd have a hard time ranking those 5 players, but I think I'd have AI above Ray... JO has also exploded though and Nash is also a great player. A+ A+ outside shooting and handling - I believe the only player in the league to have that combination? Bah... it's hard to re-rank that 5 but I just don't seem to agree with the way they're ranked here lol.

[csdude07]

Hot Rod Strickland is probably the best PG in the league.

[csdude07]

Great article btw.

[Kruwaukee]

Sept 11, 2009 1:35:02 GMT -5 Brophdog88 said:

Sept 11, 2009 1:06:07 GMT -5 Kruwaukee said:

Take away AI's steals and he is just an average PG? For real? The guy has 9 career triple doubles and 81 double doubles. Thats with coming off the bench for the first 2 seasons of his career. Also Jason Kidd gets more TOPG than AI does that make him an average PG?

Ray Allen has gone up steadily in every TC and he is better than Kobe. I've maintained that since his rookie year. He's simmed so much better than he has. Also Allen averaged 25ppg in preseason but he's been a non option this season and he is still putting up 17ppg.

1. Allen
2. AI
3. Kobe

lol, AI over Kobe... fyi of the top ten players in assists, Iverson ranks 9th in assist to turnover ratio, which is funny because he ranks 9th in assists as well, but 3rd in turnovers, without Iverson's steals, his stats look like this, 15.5 points 9.1 assists 5.5 rebounds 3.0 turnovers, Kenny Anderson for Cleveland averages 14.7 points 5.6 rebounds 9.6 assists 2 turnovers for Cleveland, he just doesn't have the steals Iverson has. Kidd gets 2 more assists per game than Iverson, and only .3 more to's. Iverson doesn't really score all that much, Kobe is a better scorer, and on the case of Ray Allen, Kobe is a better rebounder, quicker, more assists. Ray may be a better player, but he hasn't shown it stats wise. Kobe puts up better numbers than Ray except for Rays steals, missed that first go around. Geese at you complaining that I ranked your draft picks 2, 3 instead of 1-2, but really, I haven't seen anything yet to put Ray behind Kobe...(by the way, Nick Van Exel put up 30 ppg in preseason....) Iverson is probably around the eight best point guard in the league, so without his steals....where does that put him? average.


PG's who I rank above Iverson (with his steals at average). in no particular order

Cassell, Nash, Billups, (This year I really can't count Preira, since he's played mostly away from PG, but he really is a PG to the Bulls) Stoudamire, Anderson, Kidd, Danilovic, Terrell Brandon, Nick Van Exel, (lots of scoring near on assists less turnovers), Payton, thats 11th right there...12th with Preira, (wtf happened to Penny Hardaway this year...eww.....) Brent Barry could be considered a point but he is playing at SG, even though his D is lower there. Anyway though, just on standard, Iverson ranks 11th or twelvth if you count players at standard position, dependent on your opinion of Preira without his steals, aka, mediocre. There are some point guards who really don't count, since they aren't actually Point Guards, (Steve Smith anybody?). Also, I edited the part about Kobe...I did this over the course of a few days, sit down and knock some out, and I hadn't gotten to Allen when I wrote Kobe, nor had I finished Kobe's analysis. Yes Allen is close to Kobe, Iverson to me not so much, but you still got two of the top three. One more thing....you say Iverson played two seasons off the bench to get his 81 double doubles in 319 games? cause it sure looks like he started from first year...with 35.9 mpg rookie year, and 39 every year since. hrmm....Hell Chauncey Billups on my own team will make 81 double doubles by the end of the season most likely, in only 236 games he sits at 77, with three triple doubles

Stats aren't everything. Hill and Mcdyess are the main guns on my team. You stick Allen on another team and he is a prime time scorer no doubt about it.

Every season he has had better percentages than Kobe. He has had more ppg despite being a non-option and he plays better defense. You said Kobe is a better rebounder he gets less than 1 more rebound per game.

Kobe is getting 20, 7, 5, 1 on 47,77,44 as a #1 option on a losing team.

Allen is getting 16, 6, 2, 2 on 49,87,41 as a non option on a winning team.

Last year in a reduced roll Kobe scored 7 less PPG.

Last year in the same roll Allen scored 3 less PPG

Allen is improving while Kobe is inflating.


Also back to AI he isn't an average PG by any means. He is a triple double threat who is continually a double double guy. He is efficient on shooting the ball and can score more if asked to. I also fail to see how you can even argue this because thats like saying take away Reggie Miller's jump shot and he was an average player, take away Dwight Howards athleticism and he is an average player. I also think AI has done more in his career so far than Kobe.

[Brophdog88]

Sept 11, 2009 4:21:00 GMT -5 Tigertecz said:

Firstly, great article, as always Brophdog.

Secondly, what a great draft. It may have been expected to be the wonder draft, but damn look at that list of players. The improvement ratings-wise that some of these players have already had is remarkable, especially those first 5.

1. Kobe Bryant SG 20 6'6'' 192 B A- B A- C+ (1)
2. Ray Allen SG 23 6'5'' 205 B- A C B+ C (5)
3. Allen Iverson PG 24 6'0'' 175 C+ A- A- A C (2)
4. Jermaine O'Neal PF 20 6'11'' 225 B C- C A- A- (4)
5. Steve Nash PG 25 6'3'' 195 C A+ A+ C C- (6)

^^ wow ^^

I think I'd have a hard time ranking those 5 players, but I think I'd have AI above Ray... JO has also exploded though and Nash is also a great player. A+ A+ outside shooting and handling - I believe the only player in the league to have that combination? Bah... it's hard to re-rank that 5 but I just don't seem to agree with the way they're ranked here lol.

I put Kobe number one, due to the fact that he has shown the most as of yet, its closer then you might think, but Ray doesn't turn the ball over much, and gets similar steals to Iverson at the SG position, JO has to figure out the scoring, but I think that his high rebounds, added to his 2 blocks, and 12 ppg makes him four, and Nash ends up fifth only because of his D...you give him a B defense, and I am strongly considering number one. Anybody could be interchanged, but Ray and Kobe are number one two, just because to me AI turns the ball over too much. If he were to drop to around 2 turnovers, AI, due to his Defense, is a top 5 PG, but 3 to's to 9 assists isn't all that great, and I think Ray manages to match him because of it. and to Kru, scoring isn't everything, Kobe's defense rating is better, although he doesn't get more steals, he gets more rebounds, and more assists, oh, and Kobe has a title, and scored like 38+ points in two games in the final and led the team in scoring more than twice,call in the clinching game Kobe dominated. When Ray Allen and Iverson get a title, tell me, and I will reconsider.

[Kruwaukee]

Sept 11, 2009 13:39:16 GMT -5 Brophdog88 said:

Sept 11, 2009 4:21:00 GMT -5 Tigertecz said:

Firstly, great article, as always Brophdog.

Secondly, what a great draft. It may have been expected to be the wonder draft, but damn look at that list of players. The improvement ratings-wise that some of these players have already had is remarkable, especially those first 5.

1. Kobe Bryant SG 20 6'6'' 192 B A- B A- C+ (1)
2. Ray Allen SG 23 6'5'' 205 B- A C B+ C (5)
3. Allen Iverson PG 24 6'0'' 175 C+ A- A- A C (2)
4. Jermaine O'Neal PF 20 6'11'' 225 B C- C A- A- (4)
5. Steve Nash PG 25 6'3'' 195 C A+ A+ C C- (6)

^^ wow ^^

I think I'd have a hard time ranking those 5 players, but I think I'd have AI above Ray... JO has also exploded though and Nash is also a great player. A+ A+ outside shooting and handling - I believe the only player in the league to have that combination? Bah... it's hard to re-rank that 5 but I just don't seem to agree with the way they're ranked here lol.

I put Kobe number one, due to the fact that he has shown the most as of yet, its closer then you might think, but Ray doesn't turn the ball over much, and gets similar steals to Iverson at the SG position, JO has to figure out the scoring, but I think that his high rebounds, added to his 2 blocks, and 12 ppg makes him four, and Nash ends up fifth only because of his D...you give him a B defense, and I am strongly considering number one. Anybody could be interchanged, but Ray and Kobe are number one two, just because to me AI turns the ball over too much. If he were to drop to around 2 turnovers, AI, due to his Defense, is a top 5 PG, but 3 to's to 9 assists isn't all that great, and I think Ray manages to match him because of it. and to Kru, scoring isn't everything, Kobe's defense rating is better, although he doesn't get more steals, he gets more rebounds, and more assists, oh, and Kobe has a title, and scored like 38+ points in two games in the final and led the team in scoring more than twice,call in the clinching game Kobe dominated. When Ray Allen and Iverson get a title, tell me, and I will reconsider.

So now we're chalking up the Heat's title to Kobe? Come on now we're reaching. Karl Malone had everything to do with that title.

How has Kobe shown more? What has he done in his career that is so noteworthy? He's averaged 12ppg on 44% shooting over 3 seasons.

We'll see I think you sell AI really short. The difference between a Top 5 PG and an average one is apparently 1 topg. Come on get real.

[Brophdog88]

no, if you only get 9 assists a game, 3 turnovers is bad, and yes Malone did have something to do with that title, but that doesn't change the fact that Kobe took over the clinching finals game, and another game in the finals, and led the Heat in scoring for many of the finals games. The difference between an elite PG and IVerson is not 1 turnover, its more points, more assists, less turnovers...when I wrote this Iverson averaged 14.9 ppg, not exactly very high there is it. 9.1 assists is good for 9th in the league, solid, but as I said, its Iversons steals that make him good. Without those, he IS average, but you miss my point, I am not discounting how good he is, because he has the steals, just pointing out that that is his forte, and outside that he isn't special, cause 15 and 9 with 3 turnovers really isn't special. He has the steals, so I put him around 7th or 8th best PG in the league, with them (Cassell, Preira is included now, Billups, but he really doesn't have the scoring to jump some of those guys ahead of him. Ray is good but there is no way to rank him ahead of Kobe, because this is not a ranking of where players could end up, or what they could do in a different situation, but what they have done and are doing. kobe is playing better than Ray, this year and on his career Kobe is averaging better numbers at PPG Rebounds per game, assists per game, and is a better defender.

[Trunks]

I think Kruwaukee needs to stfu and stop complaining about his goddamn players and where they are ranked. FUCK IT IS HIS OPINION AND HIS GOD DAMN ARTICLE now STFU or make your own god damn article fuck.

[Kruwaukee]

Sept 12, 2009 0:59:44 GMT -5 Trunks said:

I think Kruwaukee needs to stfu and stop complaining about his goddamn players and where they are ranked. FUCK IT IS HIS OPINION AND HIS GOD DAMN ARTICLE now STFU or make your own god damn article fuck.

So he is allowed to have an opinion but I can't have mine. STFU. Anyways as much as I go back and forth with brodog its all in fun. These articles are always subject to criticism and opinions there is no right or wrong answer. I voted 5 because its a great article. Anyways Allen>Kobe

[Brophdog88]

Sept 12, 2009 2:20:44 GMT -5 Kruwaukee said:

Sept 12, 2009 0:59:44 GMT -5 Trunks said:

I think Kruwaukee needs to stfu and stop complaining about his goddamn players and where they are ranked. FUCK IT IS HIS OPINION AND HIS GOD DAMN ARTICLE now STFU or make your own god damn article fuck.

So he is allowed to have an opinion but I can't have mine. STFU. Anyways as much as I go back and forth with brodog its all in fun. These articles are always subject to criticism and opinions there is no right or wrong answer. I voted 5 because its a great article. Anyways Allen>Kobe

I agree, it is all in fun, and until he proves it Allen<Kobe

[ashes]

Dave is reaching saying Allen is better than Kobe. Ask him who he'd prefer having right now.