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Post by Tigertecz on Jan 13, 2010 3:25:58 GMT -5
If you're talking about Preira that's pretty unfair... I've brought in Maxwell when he was a 25ppg player still, Pippen while he was putting up 20-7-5-2, Mutombo in his prime when he won all those DPOY awards and Camby in his prime who was putting up 23-13-2. More recently I brought in perennial All Defense First Teamer Clifford Robinson too along with Peja Stojakovic to help out. Preira doesn't do it all on his own, I've just been able to surround him with the right talent. I mean, Preira - Maxwell - Pippen - Camby - Mutombo was the team in its prime... take out Preira and that's still a contending team with Barkley, Rodriguez, Griffin and Horry who were also on the team at the time. Yeah it's still a great team but would it be able to win a championship, if lets say Preira was on another team that was a major contender at the time? I don't think your team would be as dominant or league owning as it is now and before without Preira. I'm not saying I would've had four rings without him, but saying the team is nothing without him is the same as saying the Bulls in the NBA would've been nothing without MJ. They had him and they surrounded him with the right talent to keep winning. I just don't think you can say it was purely down to Preira. How can you just dismiss bringing in 4-5 20+ppg scorers and some of the best defensive players in the league's history to the team as well? |
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Post by Tigertecz on Jan 13, 2010 3:32:19 GMT -5
If you're talking about Preira that's pretty unfair... I've brought in Maxwell when he was a 25ppg player still, Pippen while he was putting up 20-7-5-2, Mutombo in his prime when he won all those DPOY awards and Camby in his prime who was putting up 23-13-2. More recently I brought in perennial All Defense First Teamer Clifford Robinson too along with Peja Stojakovic to help out. Preira doesn't do it all on his own, I've just been able to surround him with the right talent. I mean, Preira - Maxwell - Pippen - Camby - Mutombo was the team in its prime... take out Preira and that's still a contending team with Barkley, Rodriguez, Griffin and Horry who were also on the team at the time. Lol, don't deny the facts. Your team would be nothing without EP. You got lucky and signed him. If you never had him your team would be average and nothing more. Hey everyone gets lucky in sims because it is a game, nothing against you but to say you would be in the same boat without him is dumb. Because without him I doubt you win one ship. I never said I'd be in the same boad without him. I just said that my team would've still been a contender without him 3-4 seasons ago. And you say I got lucky with him... it's not like he was auto picked for me. I signed him in FA when everyone else had exactly the same chance to sign him. I just offered him more than other people although it wasn't even a max offer. And I even called it during that FA period saying he was my main target but literally nobody responded to it because nobody saw he was a top shotblocking PG in his Sophomore season. Nobody spotted it. That doesn't make me lucky for offering him a good deal. And to bring in the other talent to surround Preira from a team that literally had zero trade bait on it when I inherited the team too, shows I did something right. Hell even when I tried to rebuild and get the #1 pick, who turns out to be the best player that year? Rasheed Wallace. And what did he do? Nothing. It's not like I drafted Shaq or MJ or Duncan or someone of that calibur. And how long was MJ in the league? The next best player in the league who continued to play at 30ppg level for his whole career. How many rings did he end up with? He wasn't surrounded by enough talent to get more. |
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Post by Tigertecz on Jan 13, 2010 3:34:06 GMT -5
I mean yeah, people have had Shaq, Kobe, and great players like that, but Preira is in a league of his own seeing as how he regularly frequents the border of a quad double in playoff games. Tell me that if you swapped Preira with Shaq this past year you would still win the ship and I will lol. This past year, no. But if I had Shaq to add to Camby, Deke, Maxwell, Pippen, Barkley, Rodriguez, Horry, etc 3-5 seasons ago then yes, I still think my team would've won a couple of rings. |
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Post by Trunks on Jan 13, 2010 5:06:12 GMT -5
Yeah it's still a great team but would it be able to win a championship, if lets say Preira was on another team that was a major contender at the time? I don't think your team would be as dominant or league owning as it is now and before without Preira. I'm not saying I would've had four rings without him, but saying the team is nothing without him is the same as saying the Bulls in the NBA would've been nothing without MJ. They had him and they surrounded him with the right talent to keep winning. I just don't think you can say it was purely down to Preira. How can you just dismiss bringing in 4-5 20+ppg scorers and some of the best defensive players in the league's history to the team as well? Yeah great point you bring up. Though it does makes you wonder what your team would be capable of without Preira, and what the rest of the GMs i think are trying to say is, try to win a ring without that beast.  |
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Post by Tigertecz on Jan 13, 2010 6:01:40 GMT -5
I'm not saying I would've had four rings without him, but saying the team is nothing without him is the same as saying the Bulls in the NBA would've been nothing without MJ. They had him and they surrounded him with the right talent to keep winning. I just don't think you can say it was purely down to Preira. How can you just dismiss bringing in 4-5 20+ppg scorers and some of the best defensive players in the league's history to the team as well? Yeah great point you bring up. Though it does makes you wonder what your team would be capable of without Preira, and what the rest of the GMs i think are trying to say is, try to win a ring without that beast. Yeah but if I have him, why get rid of him? It's like telling the Lakers to ship Kobe off and see if they can win a title. It makes no sense... And also, I've been trying to ship off Preira but people don't want to pony up his market value, yet everyone knows how much of a game changer he is, they just want to get him for cheap. I'd rather keep him than ship him off just for the sake of it. |
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Post by csdude07 on Jan 13, 2010 11:26:12 GMT -5
What did Csdude do to add talent around Shaq? He let Mullin and Strickland rot around them. I certainly didn't trade Allan Houston for DRob. |
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Post by Kruwaukee on Jan 13, 2010 11:36:55 GMT -5
What did Csdude do to add talent around Shaq? He let Mullin and Strickland rot around them. I certainly didn't trade Allan Houston for DRob. After that thought you didn't keep retooling. Tiger did which is my point. That guy kept adding an arsenal around EP it was crazy and frustrating. |
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Post by DB on Jan 13, 2010 11:39:31 GMT -5
Having EP is almost unfair however you can't deny the work that Tiger has done surrounding him with talent. He's done an excellent job of continually adding talent. He added Horry, he added Maxwell, he added Camby, he added Pippen, he added Barkley, he added Peja, etc. He continues to surround him with complimentary talent that has kept him a winner. Now I think Preira is on another level than any other player in this league like Shaq, Kobe, etc. however if you look at those teams who have other "superstars" they haven't done nearly as good of a job surrounding those guys with complimentary talent. Since Kobe had Malone who else has the heat added? What did Csdude do to add talent around Shaq? He let Mullin and Strickland rot around them. As much as I think Tiger is annoying and arrogant at times, I can certainly respect and appreciate the job he has done with his franchise making the Bulls into a dynasty. Anyways EP is almost better with less talent around him because he gets the ball more so no matter what Tiger does EP reigns supreme. anybody can put talent around EP and win. The point is w/o him would you still have the same success. no you wont. |
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Post by martinez on Jan 13, 2010 11:40:37 GMT -5
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Post by csdude07 on Jan 13, 2010 11:44:54 GMT -5
I certainly didn't trade Allan Houston for DRob. After that thought you didn't keep retooling. Tiger did which is my point. That guy kept adding an arsenal around EP it was crazy and frustrating. The supporting cast for the Bulls this year was laughable. That's why people are finally realizing what I said a few seasons back...the difference Preira makes on a team is incomparable. This year pretty much proved my point, I was just reminding people I made that point in the first place... |
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Post by DB on Jan 13, 2010 11:46:29 GMT -5
Lol, don't deny the facts. Your team would be nothing without EP. You got lucky and signed him. If you never had him your team would be average and nothing more. Hey everyone gets lucky in sims because it is a game, nothing against you but to say you would be in the same boat without him is dumb. Because without him I doubt you win one ship. I never said I'd be in the same boad without him. I just said that my team would've still been a contender without him 3-4 seasons ago. And you say I got lucky with him... it's not like he was auto picked for me. I signed him in FA when everyone else had exactly the same chance to sign him. I just offered him more than other people although it wasn't even a max offer. And I even called it during that FA period saying he was my main target but literally nobody responded to it because nobody saw he was a top shotblocking PG in his Sophomore season. Nobody spotted it. That doesn't make me lucky for offering him a good deal. And to bring in the other talent to surround Preira from a team that literally had zero trade bait on it when I inherited the team too, shows I did something right. Hell even when I tried to rebuild and get the #1 pick, who turns out to be the best player that year? Rasheed Wallace. And what did he do? Nothing. It's not like I drafted Shaq or MJ or Duncan or someone of that calibur. And how long was MJ in the league? The next best player in the league who continued to play at 30ppg level for his whole career. How many rings did he end up with? He wasn't surrounded by enough talent to get more. EP is so much better than Jordan, you can't compare the two. EP does thing no one has ever seen before do. He can do everything and play any position. They were on a different level. And yes, You got extremely lucky. How can you deny that. It is a sim league, guys with high potential sometimes never come out the way they're suppose to. But you signed a guy who looked like he might have potential, what if he did not have anything and busted. It could of went either way, so yes, you got lucky. It doesn't matter if nobody spotted it? Lol, how could anyone spot anything in FBB, you can't, so you got lucky by signing him. Who cares though, everyone gets lucky with signings, no one knows how they work. Everyone gets lucky with TCs, it is just the way it works. You just proved my point, you had the number 1 pick with rasheed that netted you plenty of talent back. So there is your trade bait. Camby was going for really cheap because I dealt him to you for a couple firsts I believe, nothing to serious. You landed some big names for cheap prices and all you needed to do was put a super-super-star around them. |
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Post by Tigertecz on Jan 13, 2010 12:31:50 GMT -5
So you're saying there's no credit for the rings I've won then? That everything was down to luck? Because that's some bullshit right there. Sure, some parts are down to luck, as with everything like you say. Hell you can go in with the best team in the league and lose in the first round and say the 8th seed got lucky. Doesn't mean they didn't try and put in a good depth chart, get the tactics right etc etc. You can't take away from the achievement.
I've never ever said my team would have been as successful without Preira than with him, but at the same time you can't deny I've had to build around Preira in order to win.
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Post by martinez on Jan 13, 2010 12:35:34 GMT -5
it's not like Preira just blew up either Tiger actually developed him, something 75% of people don't do here.
Via Articles: Etienne Preira:Stealing/Quickness/Strength
IT: Etienne Preira-Mid Range Shooting (+5),Speed (+0). Strength (+2), Passing (+2)
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Post by Tigertecz on Jan 13, 2010 12:37:35 GMT -5
Also the bonuses for PP. Everything I possibly could do went to Preira lol.
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Post by martinez on Jan 13, 2010 12:39:12 GMT -5
nowitzki was garbage until I got him too and up until this year he was actually pretty damn dominant for awhile
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