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Post by Brophdog88 on Oct 20, 2009 2:59:11 GMT -5
Chauncey in the preseason 30.1 ppg 9.3 assists 5.1 boards 1.8 steals 1.7 turnovers (I would love to use Regular season stats....but I can't)
Nash in regular season 26.8 ppg 10.8 assists 4.3 boards, 1.9 steals 2.7 turnovers...0 Defense
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Post by Tigertecz on Oct 20, 2009 3:01:23 GMT -5
by the way Tiger, you should still write that article, this is most valuable in trade, not best overall. No no, mine was also most valuable. I wasn't going just by best players. I'll still do an article soon but it'll be different. |
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Post by Brophdog88 on Oct 20, 2009 3:03:39 GMT -5
by the way Tiger, you should still write that article, this is most valuable in trade, not best overall. No no, mine was also most valuable. I wasn't going just by best players. I'll still do an article soon but it'll be different. oh well, damn, you should just do best players this year....or most valuable players to their individual teams overall success.... |
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Post by Tigertecz on Oct 20, 2009 3:05:14 GMT -5
Chauncey in the preseason 30.1 ppg 9.3 assists 5.1 boards 1.8 steals 1.7 turnovers (I would love to use Regular season stats....but I can't) Nash in regular season 26.8 ppg 10.8 assists 4.3 boards, 1.9 steals 2.7 turnovers...0 Defense 1.9spg isn't 0 defense. People lament him for his D, and I'm one of those guys too, but he gets 1.9spg which is what Maxwell (with A+ defending) is getting at 10th best in the league, so he's not that bad a defender. The thing is, how many other players in the league have A+ A+ outside shooting and handling? In fact, how many other players have A+ A+ anywhere? The only other player I can think of with that is Shaq and he's right up at the top. Billups is a great player, and I'd have him in the top 15 now, ahead of LJ to be honest, but I still wouldn't take him over Nash... and that's just my opinion. Seems like it's shared too by the looks of this article's list. Also, I remember Ashes saying that Nash is a top five player maybe last season or the season before? I think it was in my Tiger's Den article actually. |
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Post by Tigertecz on Oct 20, 2009 3:07:31 GMT -5
No no, mine was also most valuable. I wasn't going just by best players. I'll still do an article soon but it'll be different. oh well, damn, you should just do best players this year....or most valuable players to their individual teams overall success.... Yeah lol that's actually one of my other ideas but I decided to do that a little later, maybe after the deadline when teams are set. You're reading my mind lol. I'm now working on a different article though. Will be up later today. |
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Post by Tigertecz on Oct 20, 2009 3:09:18 GMT -5
Yup, Ashes list in Tiger's Den for the top five players if the Creation Draft was redone using last year's players was:
Etienne Preira, Shaquille O'Neal, Tim Duncan, Kobe Bryant, and Steve Nash
He knows more about the players here than anyone else so that's pretty dang high praise for Steve Nash who I ranked significantly lower than that.
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Post by Brophdog88 on Oct 20, 2009 3:10:42 GMT -5
Chauncey in the preseason 30.1 ppg 9.3 assists 5.1 boards 1.8 steals 1.7 turnovers (I would love to use Regular season stats....but I can't) Nash in regular season 26.8 ppg 10.8 assists 4.3 boards, 1.9 steals 2.7 turnovers...0 Defense 1.9spg isn't 0 defense. People lament him for his D, and I'm one of those guys too, but he gets 1.9spg which is what Maxwell (with A+ defending) is getting at 10th best in the league, so he's not that bad a defender. The thing is, how many other players in the league have A+ A+ outside shooting and handling? In fact, how many other players have A+ A+ anywhere? The only other player I can think of with that is Shaq and he's right up at the top. Billups is a great player, and I'd have him in the top 15 now, ahead of LJ to be honest, but I still wouldn't take him over Nash... and that's just my opinion. Seems like it's shared too by the looks of this article's list. Also, I remember Ashes saying that Nash is a top five player maybe last season or the season before? I think it was in my Tiger's Den article actually. Thing is steals are not everything that makes up a players D, he also has to actually do stuff to throw off the opponents game. Nash therefore has a decent steals rating yes, but on the other 80 or so possesions that he doesn't get one of his 1.9 steals he does not have the ability to do much. I mean if you think about it, with his quickness, and his decent steals, his perimeter D and Drive D have to be terrible. He is one dimensional...he has offense that is it. |
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Post by Brophdog88 on Oct 20, 2009 3:14:55 GMT -5
Yup, Ashes list in Tiger's Den for the top five players if the Creation Draft was redone using last year's players was: Etienne Preira, Shaquille O'Neal, Tim Duncan, Kobe Bryant, and Steve Nash He knows more about the players here than anyone else so that's pretty dang high praise for Steve Nash who I ranked significantly lower than that. He said he believes the top 5 taken would be those, not that Nash is a top 5 player, maybe thats what he meant but I dunno if he was saying Nash is top 5. |
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Post by Brophdog88 on Oct 20, 2009 3:22:28 GMT -5
lol, we will get to see Chauncey face off against Nash this season, as my last game of the season is against Seattle, too bad Chauncey comes back just a few days too late or we would get to see two matchups.
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Post by Tigertecz on Oct 20, 2009 3:32:20 GMT -5
1.9spg isn't 0 defense. People lament him for his D, and I'm one of those guys too, but he gets 1.9spg which is what Maxwell (with A+ defending) is getting at 10th best in the league, so he's not that bad a defender. The thing is, how many other players in the league have A+ A+ outside shooting and handling? In fact, how many other players have A+ A+ anywhere? The only other player I can think of with that is Shaq and he's right up at the top. Billups is a great player, and I'd have him in the top 15 now, ahead of LJ to be honest, but I still wouldn't take him over Nash... and that's just my opinion. Seems like it's shared too by the looks of this article's list. Also, I remember Ashes saying that Nash is a top five player maybe last season or the season before? I think it was in my Tiger's Den article actually. Thing is steals are not everything that makes up a players D, he also has to actually do stuff to throw off the opponents game. Nash therefore has a decent steals rating yes, but on the other 80 or so possesions that he doesn't get one of his 1.9 steals he does not have the ability to do much. I mean if you think about it, with his quickness, and his decent steals, his perimeter D and Drive D have to be terrible. He is one dimensional...he has offense that is it. I understand all of that. It's like how I was arguing that Camby was a liability on D for me a couple seasons ago when I got Pippen, and everyone was saying he gets nearly 3bpg (I think even you were saying it too...) but I understand about behind the scenes ratings too because Camby was getting lit up by Robinson. But having said that, not discounting his below average D, Nash is a top class passer and shooter. Billups may be very good at shooting and passing, but Nash is that much better. |
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Post by Tigertecz on Oct 20, 2009 3:33:00 GMT -5
Yup, Ashes list in Tiger's Den for the top five players if the Creation Draft was redone using last year's players was: Etienne Preira, Shaquille O'Neal, Tim Duncan, Kobe Bryant, and Steve Nash He knows more about the players here than anyone else so that's pretty dang high praise for Steve Nash who I ranked significantly lower than that. He said he believes the top 5 taken would be those, not that Nash is a top 5 player, maybe thats what he meant but I dunno if he was saying Nash is top 5. Either way it's pretty damn high praise. Billups wasn't even a consideration. |
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Post by Tigertecz on Oct 20, 2009 3:35:57 GMT -5
lol, we will get to see Chauncey face off against Nash this season, as my last game of the season is against Seattle, too bad Chauncey comes back just a few days too late or we would get to see two matchups. Seattle's success over the past few seasons has been riding on Nash, Webster and Barry, who, despite being average defenders at best, were top class shooters, and no matter what, they produced big time. Stick Billups in that team instead of Nash though, and I don't think they would've done nearly as well. They still wouldn't have been able to beat the Grizzlies in 7 games still (due to the lack of a frontcourt moreso than the PG), but they definitely wouldn't have been pushing for top spot out West imo. |
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Post by Brophdog88 on Oct 20, 2009 3:37:36 GMT -5
Thing is steals are not everything that makes up a players D, he also has to actually do stuff to throw off the opponents game. Nash therefore has a decent steals rating yes, but on the other 80 or so possesions that he doesn't get one of his 1.9 steals he does not have the ability to do much. I mean if you think about it, with his quickness, and his decent steals, his perimeter D and Drive D have to be terrible. He is one dimensional...he has offense that is it. I understand all of that. It's like how I was arguing that Camby was a liability on D for me a couple seasons ago when I got Pippen, and everyone was saying he gets nearly 3bpg (I think even you were saying it too...) but I understand about behind the scenes ratings too because Camby was getting lit up by Robinson. But having said that, not discounting his below average D, Nash is a top class passer and shooter. Billups may be very good at shooting and passing, but Nash is that much better. Thing is, for Nash's extra 2 assists in preseason, he turns the ball over one extra time....and if I pushed a outside scoring philosophy, odds are good I would have Chauncey scoring much more, he averaged that 30 ppg in preseason for 15 games...maybe he would have fallen, but I am not so sure of that, and that was good for fourth in the league in preseason. |
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Post by Brophdog88 on Oct 20, 2009 3:46:31 GMT -5
lol, we will get to see Chauncey face off against Nash this season, as my last game of the season is against Seattle, too bad Chauncey comes back just a few days too late or we would get to see two matchups. Seattle's success over the past few seasons has been riding on Nash, Webster and Barry, who, despite being average defenders at best, were top class shooters, and no matter what, they produced big time. Stick Billups in that team instead of Nash though, and I don't think they would've done nearly as well. They still wouldn't have been able to beat the Grizzlies in 7 games still (due to the lack of a frontcourt moreso than the PG), but they definitely wouldn't have been pushing for top spot out West imo. So because 3 shooters, who are built to play with Nash would not work with Billups, Nash is better? You put Nash on a team with not great offensive but very good defensive SG/SF...and Chauncey is going to be better by that philosophy, because a great defender would mesh better with the other two. Thing is though, we know just how big of a difference Billups makes, as I am only on pace for 27 wins...a difference of 28 wins from last year, and I lost nothing over last year, even adding a good defensive and rebounding Center....(well I guess I lost Michael Doleac...who knew he was so vital) |
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Post by Brophdog88 on Oct 20, 2009 3:47:31 GMT -5
I dunno why it matters its not like I am trading Chauncey anyway.
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